Above pic : Peter Locke. Photo credit Sally Glass
This interview is the twenty-fourth in a series of interviews with a number of Australia’s most distinguished jazz artists, which were published monthly in Loudmouth, the e-zine edited by Dr Richard Letts. Loudmouth ceased publication in late 2024, so subsequent interviews will now appear in Sydney Arts Guide. They will now concentrate on musicians who are active either in Sydney or in New South Wales regional areas. These interviews include two sections: a biography provided by the artist and a question & answer interview which is conducted by email. Such interviews are designed to be brief, relevant and informative, allowing those artists to reveal hitherto unknown information about their musical careers, and giving them an opportunity to express their views on the Australian music scene. All artists in this series were asked similar questions about their experiences as a music maker, plus other questions which arose during the interview process. Originally they were based on the ten questions used by pianist Chris Cody in his celebrated 10 x 10 series of interviews, published in Loudmouth between August, 2021 and May, 2022. We express our appreciation that Chris gave us permission to use his questions, which facilitated such interesting interviews in his 10 x 10 series.
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BIOGRAPHY
Peter Locke is one of Australia’s most highly respected jazz pianists, musical directors, accompanists, and songwriters. Based out of Sydney and the NSW South Coast, he is in demand in many musical settings owing to the depth of the jazz tradition in his playing. Peter studied with, and is a protege of, the late piano master Chuck Yates.
In addition to his own Peter Locke Trio, he performs regularly with the Dan Barnett Big Band, Brad Child’s Swing Era Big Band, John Morrison’s Swing City Big Band, Society Syncopators (Melbourne), Andrew Dickeson’s Blue Rhythm Band, Jazz Quartet (Bowral), the Mell-o-Tones and the New Wolverine Jazz Orchestra. He is often the pianist of choice with artists such as Nicki Parrott, Adrian Cunningham, Billy Burton, Andrew Dickeson, Renato Marcon, Andy Firth, Geoff Power & Bob Henderson. Peter was resident pianist in the late Bob Barnard’s quartet for the last ten years before Bob’s retirement.
Peter regularly accompanies some of the country’s top jazz vocalists including Gregg Arthur, Wilma Reading, Monica Trapaga, Di Bird, Marilyn Mendez, George Washingmachine and the legendary Johnny Nicol to name a few. Not forgetting the late, great Marie Wilson. Peter also receives warm praise for his tasteful trumpet and flugelhorn solos. Few musicians move so seamlessly from interpretations of the works of Bix Beiderbecke and Duke Ellington to bebop and beyond.
Some recent festival appearances include Thredbo Jazz, Melbourne International Jazz Festival (with Gregg Arthur), Devonport Jazz, the Noosa Jazz Party, Manly Jazz Festival (with Bob Barnard, Todd Hardy, Dan Barnett, and Gregg Arthur) plus Norfolk Island Jazz (with The Rockets).
Peter’s overseas tours include four appearances at the Bix Beiderbecke Festival in USA with the New Wolverine Jazz Orchestra; a European tour with Melbourne’s legendary Society Syncopators; an Asian tour with the Daly-Wilson Big Band in the 80s; Brazil, Cuba, and Waiheki, New Zealand tours with the Dan Barnett Big Band and Christchurch NZ tour with Andrew Dickeson’s Blue Rhythm Band. Nationally Peter has toured with Bob Barnard, Leroy Jones (of Harry Connick Jnr fame), Gregg Arthur, Dan Barnett and with John Morrison’s Swing City Big Band.
Peter has appeared at the majority of Australian jazz festivals including Wangaratta, Devonport and Noosa. In 2016 the Peter Locke Trio performed to sell-out audiences at Devonport Jazz Festival.
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
Eric Myers: What do you think of being a jazz pianist/improviser in Australia, and how have you been able to build your career so far?
Peter Locke: I’d have to say it’s difficult in general in the current music environment that is so dominated by pop music. Also, the lack of instrumental music per se being played over the standard airwaves and free-to-air television is noticeable. It’s dominated almost entirely by vocalists and solid body guitar instrumentals. This is a serious problem for the standard live musician and particularly horn players. The legendary Oscar Peterson stated in an interview in Berlin in 1986 that “there is little or no pop music coming along featuring the instrumentalist.” I believe also that 30 years ago, he was concerned that players couldn’t develop their playing due to the lack of venues.
Both of his comments are evidenced in today’s music scene; there is a lack of venues where our music can be performed. Importantly, there is also a lack of good acoustic pianos. I feel as a pianist this creates a problem for artists coming along in terms of attaining a sound. When people ask what I do and I say “jazz piano” they mainly give me a dubious look, but sometimes show a genuine interest. Hence, not to say one can’t make a living, but in general compared to even the 80s, the work for live musicians has been in recession since that time and that’s 40 years! Having met several of the musicians from the “true” nightclubs (Chequers, Latin Quarter, Andrés, the Ling Nam etc) the work tailed off from about the late 70s. On the positive side, it’s the ultimate to be able to perform with, and be immersed amongst such creative intelligent people. Also one may be playing with people who have been your heroes.
How do your experiences in Australia compare to your experiences elsewhere?
In Australia to say you are a jazz pianist often brings a frown or some naive questions such as “can you play Piano Man?” (no disrespect to Billy Joel). But while on a European tour with the Melbourne band The Syncopators, I couldn’t help noticing that if you mentioned casually that you were a jazz pianist, even in conversation on the street, even younger generations were excited and asked questions such as “wow, what type of jazz, do you play?” This indicated that Europe was different, and I noticed that the arts were “up”; people were interested and wanted to know more. Of course, Europe has had many centuries of creating some of the greatest Western art and those countries are obviously steeped in the arts and are proud of this – it’s within the people.
Have you found that the various forms of social media have been helpful in advancing your career? If so, in what ways have they been helpful?
I’ve kindly had a website set up for me (peterlockemusic.com) although I think by now it’s probably a little behind the times, but at least people can find out about you and your gig and engagement timetable. Being old school, I’m also behind the pace regarding Facebook (which I don’t really have time for, or interest in) or Instagram for that matter. Younger musicians are probably not aware that there was once a strong Musicians Union Australia-wide, and that the Sydney branch had an agency which distributed work. I arrived in Sydney around 1980 when there was still a lot of club work and restaurants used to be wine, dine and dance. One didn’t need to look for or create your own work; people called you. It was a different time in history for the live musician. Nowadays (I’m talking Sydney), it’s wine and dine only, and the music is usually a recording in the background, often too loud, and shall we say un-romantic, LOL. So, regarding the social media scene, I’ve noticed particularly for younger musicians/bands, that they often have a social media following at each gig. For myself it’s what you do and your playing that is your calling card to getting work, but it is becoming more difficult as time progresses. I’m considering starting a mailing list and a newsletter soon as it seems to work well in the jazz community.
I recently lost two solo gigs and people would say “wow, I didn’t know you were there”. This would be the point of creating one’s own work I guess, whereas in the 80s practically every restaurant would have at least a solo pianist! Hard to believe I know.
What is the main thing that nourishes your music?
I grew up in a family where we had to know and play almost every sport but we also had to learn an instrument. My father Norm was an old-time dance alto sax player and also he and my mum Molly would always be going to dances so there was a variety of music in the house most of the time. For me that included learning elementary piano on a Beale pianola. So music had an enjoyable atmosphere; I didn’t do piano exams. Instead I learnt little tunes and as time went on with different teachers I learnt some classical and then the Shefte method for the piano which I guess created an interest in wider musical horizons. My first gigs were on trumpet in a 50-50 dance group in Port Macquarie and this introduced me to a new exciting world. Playing music for people’s enjoyment and even getting paid to do so was always a positive and mostly exciting occasion!
By now I was buying jazz records and learning all the names of the greats from early jazz, the swing era, bebop etc. And so one’s life is on course really. My late great teacher Chuck Yates once said “music chooses you, you don’t choose it.” So it’s not like the usual decision of a young person leaving secondary school and deciding which job or career they should pursue. It’s more how do I navigate this new world that I’m being swept into? And it’s a one-way street that you’re on.
This brings me to currently what nourishes me as an artist. As mentioned, music is a joyous entity in itself, let alone being able to perform it from your soul. I believe jazz is the truth, as in a human endeavour of self-expression and musical statement. Pop music seems to be driven much more by fashion, which in the end can be mostly about dollars. Also to be able to perform the art form of jazz with your brotherhood and kindred spirits is huge nourishment and simply enough in itself to want to continue till we drop. The magical moments are worth every ounce of sweat. Also, in general, one is surrounded by intelligent creative people, which is so enriching also.
List three things you would introduce to Australia to improve or enhance the music scene here.
For me this is political. Currently our governments (sadly on both sides of politics) are not backing live musicians/music.
*Reinstate live music performances on TV/radio
When I first arrived in Sydney around 1980 every TV station had an orchestra and the ABC, I think, had two. Channel 9 had the Midday Show and Tonight Show from Melbourne, and previously Bandstand. Channel 10 had the John Singleton Show, and I’d have to check but certainly earlier, Channel 7 had the Tommy Leonetti Show. This provided work for many musicians and the standard was high. I saw Don Burrows, Billy Burton, John Sangster, and I believe George Golla and more, as part of the Eric Jupp ABC Orchestra. On the pop side there was GTK and later Countdown. These shows provided an exposé of professional talent, many of whom would be able to obtain work having been seen on TV and having had that exposure. So regular live music on shows appears to have been replaced by talent quests only. I’m not against talent quests and they do have a place – the Apollo Theatre in Harlem discovered iconic artists and continues to this day.
*Levy gambling revenue to support music and the arts generally.
For some time I’ve been trying to analyse the situation. One huge “penny drop” was when doing a club gig, I asked one of our excellent female bass players why the club had sports screens around the walls in the room in which we were playing. She replied “Oh that’s so people can gamble while watching the screens”. It was a light-bulb moment for me. Since then, I’ve studied the result intently – live music and live entertainment mostly being replaced by gambling! Now, I’m not against gambling either – it provides and supports a lot of employment and it’s someone’s democratic right is it not? But as it stands now it seems to be at our expense as a society. Tim Costello puts it this way. “America has the guns, Australia has the gambling.” I would not eliminate gambling as an industry, but would like to see a levy such as with the Pools in England, where a percentage of profits are directed to support and boost the arts.
*Government support of “on the footpath” live music performance – helping venue owners to book artists.
The obvious domination of sport on the mass media is perhaps not so much about the sport, but the gambling on it, plus the television rights, associated products, fast food and of course alcohol amongst many others. Once again, I’m not against any of these, in fact I love most sports. I’ve played most of them and the sportsmen and women generally have short careers so I’m all for them being paid a legitimate amount or percentage of the proceeds. But all this should not be at the expense of our society. Governments derive large amounts of tax from gambling. We as jazz musicians are giving our all to uplift day-to-day life by playing this great art form. Should the Governments of the day not be backing this to the hilt?
What projects are you working on at the moment?
Nothing in particular at the moment, as my time is quite limited. Occasionally I write songs and compositions or join with the great Gregg Arthur and others on songs. Gregg’s super quick with good lyrics and I think if it were an earlier time in history, we would be busy producing songs for him and other artists. Also, I’m looking at classical music more than ever. I would like to try that road in terms of composition, but I have no idea how it would turn out. Apart from that, it’s hard enough just trying to get work with your peers, though these days I’m perhaps known more and can call festivals up and they’ll know me. I would also like to pursue Big Band arranging and I admire some of the excellent work of local guys such as Evan Lohning, Andrew Robertson and Kelly Ottaway.
Would you like to share with us your best and worst musical memory?
That’s a difficult one as they both seem so numerous hah! Reading charts has never been my forte, I guess I’m not motivated by it, though when doing it all the time I do get more solid and consistent. Years ago in the late ‘70s while still living in Newcastle where I met and played with Bob Henderson & Warwick Alder, I was playing in a club show and the female singer did a classical number – Bach’s Prelude No 1 that became Ave Maria, and of course she did it in a higher key (I think F). I thought I’d be okay having played it in C many times, but her chart was quite knocked around and a little hard to decipher. Halfway through I could hardly hear her as she had walked about ten metres away with no microphone. I baulked and I was gone! She slowly walked back, singing something and pointed to where I should’ve been – that was probably my worst memory. My best are quite numerous so it’s difficult to pick one, only because of the quality of people I’ve been able to work with. They include Bob Barnard at Southern Cross Club doing Ellington, the Dan Barnett Big Band in NZ, Brazil and Cuba (as well as every month in Balmain). Several appearances at the Bix Beiderbecke Festival in Davenport Iowa with Trevor Rippingale’s New Wolverines were also highlights where I got to speak with Dick Hyman and Warren Vaché (who had our own exceptional Nicki Parrott on bass, whom I hadn’t seen for some 20 years).
Bradford Child’s Swing Era Big Band at Soup Plus every Monday for ten years is another stand-out. Then of course there’s swinging with Andrew Dickeson’s Blue Rhythm Band, several performances with Nicki Parrott (now that she’s back living in Australia) and appearing at the Devonport Festival in Tasmania two out with Craig Scott, as well as accompanying many of the best vocalists including Gregg Arthur, Monica Trapaga and our late great songstress Marie Wilson, and many more.
Can you describe your most serious challenges and how you surmount them?
There have been many challenges. One was leaving a rural area on the mid-north coast where I had just survived a disastrous apprenticeship which I hated (I also hated the people I was working for). However this taught me to look for a better life and I knew I had music inside me, and that I seemed to be good at it and enjoyed it. So, I left the country town behind. This was deeply hurtful as I liked the country (and still do), but worse, I had no backing from family. There was silence when I stated that I was leaving to do something in music. I took that as meaning: we’re not stopping you but you’re on your own. I always envy city guys and girls who were raised around the Sydney and Newcastle music scene and were encouraged to pursue their music direction whatever it might be. Still, music is a driving force and it drives you on. I agree with James Morrison who, in his book Blowing My Own Trumpet said that “when you are a seriously devoted musician it’s not something you do, it’s who you are.” I still have trouble convincing myself that I have something to give, but largely it’s the encouragement of your peers that convinces you to keep going. I wish I’d had more time to practice through to now. I’ve had, as many of us do, to try and get ahead and a lot of that for me was doing my own building work on older houses. It has taken a toll on my hands, so I do remedial routines to keep them in condition. Then there is the live music/media scene with which we all struggle. So I know I’m not alone in this difficult time and once again my peers and brotherhood keep me motivated. It’s still an honour and special privilege to create and be immersed in jazz, one of the greatest art forms, if not the greatest.
If you could wave a magic wand over the music community, what would you wish for?
I’m an advocate of live music in general and of course in particular, for help to be given to the arts, rather than to the popular cultures that sadly dominate Australia. I wouldn’t so much want to wave it over the music community, rather the non-music community. I’m presuming here that the music community makes up the population which pursues live music by attending gigs, concerts, seeking out music on media, radio, TV, YouTube etc, and that the non-music audience are those who consume passively anything that’s fed to them (This audience is ideal for big business to sell to, as they are relatively uneducated). So governments have a responsibility to fix that. That’s the main wand I would wave – to have an educated discerning audience. The late, great music educator, Richard Gill, advocated for every student to learn a musical instrument. I advocate that; as part of that, everyone learns piano, as is the policy at the Sydney Conservatorium Jazz Studies course.
If you weren’t a jazz pianist what would you do?
I could easily go into architecture. I really do enjoy drawing accurate detail in structure and I had an excellent tech drawing teacher, Peter Guest, in secondary school, who was quite severe in helping us to be clear on concepts and understanding detail. He had the highest class average mark in the State. Despite the severity of his lessons it became really enjoyable. Also, I like the idea of industrial law, fighting for moral, equitable conditions. Within the arts, I think possibly painting or at least sketching, or sculpting could be good. From left field, maybe a fishing guide for fun, and seeing different parts of the nature thing.
Who or what are you listening to at the moment?
I’m actually still listening to all the jazz greats from early times to some of the present, but also I’m listening to more classical music – Bach, Chopin, Shostakovich, Ravel. My main man is Bach and I do believe he was the first jazz musician due to his harmonics and the soul in his music. I believe his critics are not hearing his harmonics. Arguably, he set up all modern music when we consider his Well-Tempered Clavier. Also Chopin is very hip in the lines played in the right hand for piano, but there are many others worth listening to.
What are your other interests outside music?
Mainly I find time for my other passion – fishing! It’s interesting to consider that Oscar Peterson was a fly fisherman as was the late Don Burrows. In what little time I had with Don we always had an enthusiastic chat about fishing; in fact I believe he competed with the Australian flyfishing team. John Morrison told me Don never bought a fly. He always tied his own. For me, fishing brings me closer to the environment and nature. If you notice weather changes, storms, wind direction, sunny versus clouds, temperature, moon phases etc, you’ll be a good angler. I also tell people that you are experiencing the vanishing Australia. Most of our rivers are under stress, and the environment as we know it is changing continually and mostly for the worse it seems. I’m also trying to educate myself regarding the other arts mainly painting and the masters of such. And finally in politics and history – I’m becoming more aware of where and why the world is in such a mess.
Please consider that my overview here is one of the total live music world. I’d like to see the status of live musicians uplifted and elevated in the public eye, as I believe it is already in cultures other than our own. The musician has a critical part in enriching our society. Here I do lean away from what I consider aggressive, violent under-toned music which is increasingly promoted in today’s age. Jazz will flourish if given a chance and is supported by governments who want to uplift our society rather than dividing and alienating us.
VIEW & LISTEN
“Don’t get around much anymore”, with Gregg Arthur live in concert at City Recital Hall, Sydney in 2024 https://youtu.be/pcAff8hFRO4?si=x4Pd0Q-v1c4gEnzM
“When it’s sleepy time down south”, Bob Barnard Tribute to Louis Armstrong, Davenport, Tasmania 2012. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuUsWPGYdw8
“Avalon”, with Adrian Cunningham Quintet, Cremorne Orpheum in Sydney, 2011 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIsunqLufjE
“My Kind of Girl”, with Dan Barnett Big Band Live in São Paulo Brazil 2008 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_aRVEATivI
INTERVIEWER
Eric Myers was the inaugural jazz critic for the Sydney Morning Herald, 1980-1982, and jazz critic with The Australian, 1983-1987. He was publisher & editor of the Australian Jazz Magazine 1981-1986, and a government-funded Jazz Co-ordinator from 1983-2002. He returned to writing on jazz for The Australian in 2015. He has a website dedicated to documenting Australian jazz history at this link www.ericmyersjazz.com
